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I only listen to narrative podcasts so I decided to launched my own narrative/documentary-style podcast. It's DIY so we're nowhere near the budgets mentioned above, instead of the typical conversation-based ones.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0KsqipeN9uMMU6ZghI5dHE?si=df4ab552d6d044f1

People like it (for what feedback is worth) and because it was different I managed to get a small sponsorship deal but I must agree the juice simply isn’t worth the squeeze.

Compared to conversation podcasts the difficulty level went from 1 to 10, whereas the traction went from 1 to 1.5. BUT it's different with video because the discovery process is different.

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Nice!

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Hi Simon, good take as always, but let me push back on two aspects I think you haven't mentioned. I agree with you that unscripted shows are the way to go for most publishers, especially smaller or medium-sized. But let's not forget public service media that doesn't need make money and in fact most of them have innovation and new format creation in their mission. In other words, if a news organisation can keep producing and experimenting with storytelling podcasts without a financial ROI, it's the public media. I would love to see them creating grants and attracting outside talent to create narrative podcasts. Also, fiction podcasts which I would put into the narrative storytelling category might be for the right media a good investment as they live for ever and if the organisation can work nicely with evergreen content, it's a nice longtail investment. Plus, let's not forget that podcasting talent wants to develop narrative podcasts (I haven't met a podcaster in news that doesn't have that ambition), so another aspect of why a news org or media org will develop a narrative podcast would be to keep and challenge their talent.

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I feel like fiction podcasts are an even tougher nut to crack. I doubt that most publishers that launch conversational shows will hire full-time podcast talent -- instead, they'll pull in their own reporters as hosts and then maybe hire a freelancer to produce.

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Ok, so this is where the difference between markets (US & EU, developed & emerging) might shape our perspectives. In my experience, podcasting talent will emerge from the newsroom as the newsroom invests in audio and those people have ambitions. Now, as the market develops and competition grows, podcasting talent has more options and will go where better treatment and carrier growth opportunities are available (actually quite normal in every industry). US is a fairly developed market, most of Europe is not, so this dynamic is very much present here.

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"Also, fiction podcasts which I would put into the narrative storytelling category might be for the right media a good investment as they live for ever and if the organisation can work nicely with evergreen content, it's a nice longtail investment."

This feels like a challenge ready for a solution.

If a brand wants to advertise in a narrative podcast and is willing to invest in long-term visibility (with some acquisition), the low download rates keep the rates low, which is really helpful. Especially for regional-focused brands who can advertise in multiple, regional podcasts over time.

The challenge comes in the brand's messaging: What is relevant today v. what will be relevant in 1 year (assuming the brand continues to promote the podcast beyond the initial launch)? Can the brand replace the ad in both the podcast read and in the podcast description? Does the podcaster have the ability to make these changes? Is there an additional fee involved?

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Good questions, luckily the podcast ad exchange part is today already solved thanks to the dynamic ad insertion. Basically, a client just needs to pay for a longer campaign and agree with the publisher that the messaging will be updated over the time. Changing podcast description is a bit trickier.

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This was great, thank you

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